author inserts and mary sues

[Steve the Mew hunter]

now before i start, i'm going to say what author inserts and mary sues are, for those of us that don't know

author insert; it's pretty obvious, it's when the author puts themselves into the story, either as a character based off themselves, or themselves literally. you know, like in bob and george. this is either for hilarity, spotlight hogging, or somehow for plot.

mary sues; a mary sue is a character that is perfect, in fact, they are generally considered too perfect. they may also be referred to as the author’s pet, or the undefeatable hero (plot protection should only go so far).

now here my opinions on those two things:

author inserts i'm usually fine with, as long as it isn't given unlimited authorly power, and isn't for spotlight hogging. if you considered anything based off of the author an author insert, i would have 3. but there are limits to their abilities.

now mary sues, ugh... just because the good guy always wins, doesn't mean that that good guy is completely invincible. i gave my author based characters weaknesses for a reason; fairness. the good guy has to lose a few times, that way they can learn, and have the experiences needed to make them the battle tried hero that has viable reason to be 50-75% invincible, while still being able to be defeated.

now what do you guys have to say about this?

[DensetsuEX]

I'm against both things.

I used to do author inserts when I was just starting out, because it was like "my adventures as Alexander Legend."
Then as time went on, Alex deviated from my personality and became his own person and character. He's still someone I relate to, but a completely different person from who I am.
I do have one insert though, Daren James.
WAIT WHAT? DAREN JAMES IS YOU?
Pretty much. Daren is my newest addition to the roster, I created him just last year and only got to use him once in a story (the original Gifted novel I finished over the summer) and twice in roleplays, so I haven't had any real time to develop his character.
But really, the only similarities between me and Daren is what we're going through, but after I get through "why the hell does Daren have voices in his head" in later comics, I'm hoping to turn him into someone completely different than who I am, like I did with Alex.
Lucas and Cero never really started out as me, I instantly had an idea for their character and began building on it. The only thing that bugs me about Cero is that I can't come up with an original power for him like I have for Alex and Lucas (Daren's is also something I'm working on, but not as much as Cero's).

Mary Sues are hard to avoid, because you usually want your characters to succeed and do good in the comic.
Mary Sues are also STEREOTYPES, like the macho strong man with more brawn than brains, the hot blond who's as dumb as a pole, the mexican selling drugs, etc.
I'm happy to say that all of my characters are indeed NOT mary sues, but need some tweaks to help them become perfect. (Except maybe Daren, but I'm working on him)
I found out by using this test that pinpoints every factor a Mary Sue will have. (<--- That's a link)

One hot spot for a Mary Sue is Bella from the book/movie series Twilight. She's literally a self-insertion and a stereotype. I didn't realize this until I read some articles about Twilight, so I enjoyed the book until then (yeah, I used to be a Twilight fan >.> so sue me.)

[Steve the Mew hunter]

another quick thing... how do you keep your characters from being mary sues?

the main thing i do is put limiting factors on the characters, for example i will use each of my author based characters

Kenth; not the best against cold, has luck that is either really good... or really really bad, afraid of hights, not the best swimmer, sometimes kinda stupid, ocasional mild depression.

Steve; a bit insane, can't swim well, has tunnle vision when it comes to mews (which leads him to do things like run of te edge of cliffs, into lakes, and into walls, trees, telephone polls and other things), the attentionspan of a squirrle.

Kevin; can't swim, godly powers are limited (ask how and i will explain), doesn't like cold, antagonistic at times, mild depression.

[DensetsuEX]

Basically to make sure your characters aren't mary sues is to try to make them as humanly as possible.
Give them flaws, give them strengths, give them quirks and interests and things that make them unique but also makes them just like every other person out there.

Take Alex Legend for example: He's just an average guy who works at a computer repair store during the weekdays. He's very intelligent, very sure of who he is (even though who he is is what Cindy made for him), and has a courageous/honor streak about him that always tells him "Be there for your friends." Sometimes Alex is witty, sometimes he gets easily irritated at Lucas' immature remarks.

And Lucas on the other hand tends to be an immature guy who loves to joke around (I haven't gotten into that much but don't worry, I will soon) and make witty remarks. He cares for his friends of course, but not in a ways that he's always there for them. He's got average intelligence, and there's nothing really special about him. Lucas lost his father in a car accident several years prior to the story, so he tries to cover up his scars and worries by being the way he is. He has trust issues, but they aren't all that evident.

When I look at what you put for your characters though Steve, all I see is three of the same people with different names and very little differences.
What makes a story isn't just what you put your characters through, it's the differences or similarities of your characters clashing. Your characters are so similar to each other they might as well be talking to a mirror.

I could go on about all my characters, but I think you get the picture. Your characters need some serious reworking, you might have to scrap everything you know about them and working from the ground up again.

[Orange Crazy]

Interesting topic.

My piece isn't up yet so I have nothing for reference but this discussion parallels role playing, which is my background before trying my hand a spriting.

To me, the author character is fine so long as they are their own individual character. Having the main character or antagonist similar to or exactly like the author character kind of defeats the point of having that one extra character. I find a lot of comics I browsed through have that sort of uniform structure in character personalities, a handful of the cast are so similar the entire comic becomes bland. If however the author character is more a part of the cast rather than a glaring reflection it makes the story more enjoyable.

What I don't like is the use of the author character as a sort of 'god type' character. It's very cliche and if not executed well just makes for a one way road to mary sue. I've seen several comics just do the 'I'm the author I pwns joo!' gag and then erase the sprite or do some lame plot twist that just turns me off from reading. For the most part those comics die quickly I believe a few are on Comic Fury. However that cliche if used properly can make a comic hilarious. Years ago I read this megaman x sonic comic where a chao had found a crayon and haphazardly started drawing. The cast didn't think much of it until this giant blue beam of death started carving up the ground around them causing them all to run. The next strip shows the chao trying to colour over some dots on a page, but said dots keep moving. Turns out the chao had found the author's pen for the comic. Hilarious. If I had the reference I'd post it, but alas I can't find it.

Mary Sues are really annoying. I formerly was an admin on several role playing forums and members with 'perfect' characters irked me. The same now when I see it in sprite comics. It makes the character that much more interesting if they have things they can't do, it gives the reader incentive to see if the character will over come their deficiencies. That's rather vague so I'll try to give an example.

8bit Theater, you're not a sprite comic maker if you don't know about it! Fighter, classically dumb yet optimistic. It makes him lovable but grinds your gears some times at the nonsense he pulls. When he does something smart it's ground breaking in the story because he never does that and if done properly makes it hilarious. But usually, his next action overrides what he had just done. Yes he is a stereotype, but he sticks with it, it's his character and for me if you stay in character it adds a flow to the entire cast giving them a life of their own.

I'll revisit this discussion when my comic is finally up because I do have an author character, though it's not exactly in the same sense as what we're talking about. I'll say he's the admin character. He's posted up in my gallery, Tendou Souji if you're curious.

[spinnerlink]

so that is why she is called i wanna be marysue. I thought it was just a pun.